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Attention Montreal fans- Dryden or Roy?
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Beener
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, by that logic, every goaltender currently playing is better than Patrick Roy. REALLY, so who would you candidate be for current Gretsky Greatness. Are you kidding me.

I am not taking this side of the argument because I am biased to Ken Dryden, but to say that Cam Ward or Carrie Price are better because they players continually improve is completely flawed>
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johnny labs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Players get better all the time thats all Im saying. I love the HOF players too.
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vegasjay
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dryden? This guy averaged less then 25 shots against per game in his career. Goalies would kill for that stat. The Habs were loaded at this time. Remember that classic game vs. the Red Army? Tretiak made 40 saves and Dryden made 11, 11 saves on 14 shots. Give me Roy over Dryden as I agree with Labs, the players were and are way better then back in Dryden's days. 11 saves vs. Soviets? Cowboy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yikhDV0F8ds
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vegasjay
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beener wrote:
So, by that logic, every goaltender currently playing is better than Patrick Roy. REALLY, so who would you candidate be for current Gretsky Greatness. Are you kidding me.

I am not taking this side of the argument because I am biased to Ken Dryden, but to say that Cam Ward or Carrie Price are better because they players continually improve is completely flawed>


I say the stats of the Habs are flawed and this I mean by going back to the draft when no francophone player could be drafted until the Habs selected one. Now maybe that's a stretch to say but back then all french-canadien greats were from the Montreal area.

Prior to the 1964 NHL draft, all NHL teams had the rights to all players within a 50 mile radius of their arena (The Canadiens contrary to belief did NOT have access to all of Quebec - but almost all the great French Canadian players were from the Montreal area). So aside from Toronto and Montreal how lopsided was this to the other four original 6 teams? How many "greats" came out of Detroit, Chicago, New York or Boston prior to 1964? The Habs were allowed to "stack" their team during this time. So relish in your 24 Cups but how many of them did you rightfully earn?

In the 1969 NHL draft, the Montreal Canadiens exercized their right to draft the two highest ranked French Canadians (although in 1969 - they were free to draft whomever in those first two spots) This draft is notable for being the first NHL draft to be conducted after the league ended direct sponsorship of junior hockey. Fair or foul?
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vegasjay
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnny labs wrote:
Pat Roy is/was better then Ken Dryden,give me a break,players are getting better all the time. My DVR is better then my VCR too!!!!


where does your PVR rank?

Rolling On Floor Laughing
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johnny labs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a Tivo 2, I hope to trade it to the Avs so it can win two Cups for them. Man I don't even like Pat Roy. Ken Dryden was all class.I wished he played longer.
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johnny labs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crow T Robot with the XL-7 Cooper helmet,classic Cheers
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Beener
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so basically what people are saying is that if Ken Dryden had played goal in say 2011 and could take advantage of massive body armour, grossly oversized blockers and trappers and 12" pads that they run over with thier car shortly after having them measured by the commision to make them about 13 1/2 inches wide, he would still suck hardcore because players now can skate faster, shoot better and generally play at a higher level??

Is this actually what your saying because if it is, please pull someone like Bobby Hull aside when you get the chance and ask him if he thinks he could compete in the league given todays improved equipment? I don't want to start a big debate here, but I would think that if you looked at the quality of the game and the quality of available equipment, you might find that they have both imporved at about the same level. People are in fact human and can only save as many pucks or skate and shoot as fast and hard as thier equipment will let them.
Watch a decent caliber NHL oldtimers game and you see what I mean.
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sgvette
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree. It is impossible to compare players across generations. I played in the 70s with the fiberglass masks and the cloth arm pads and the forwards had trees for sticks and heavt leather equipment. You can only compare players against their peers.

Equipment, training methods, human physiques change over time.

Ive heard people knock Orr because some of the goals he'd score on the goalies that had less equipment on than a street hockey goalie, but I didnt see any other Orrs out there.
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johnny labs
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all good points but Ill still take Pat Roy over ken Dryden,just like I would take the 2010 Blackhawks over the 1961 Blackhawks. I dont love the guy like you love Dryden.Just using my brain. Las Vegas makes a ton of money on people who love their favorite teams/players (Cubs the last 100 years).
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vegasjay
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnny labs wrote:
all good points but Ill still take Pat Roy over ken Dryden,just like I would take the 2010 Blackhawks over the 1961 Blackhawks. I dont love the guy like you love Dryden.Just using my brain. Las Vegas makes a ton of money on people who love their favorite teams/players (Cubs the last 100 years).


You know how many casinos have been built on Cubs future bets alone? How about the 1993 Rangers over the 1940 Rangers?
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Steve Dowell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:32 am    Post subject: Dryden or Roy Reply with quote

Personally, I would have a terrible time picking between the two goaltenders if they were on the same team. I saw Dryden break into the league as a rookie and he single-handedly took the Canadians to the house (that's Stanley Cup for those of you in Rio Linda, CA) that year making saves that were for that day and time, nothing short of "never-before-seen," then five more times throughout the 70's. His career was very short but, he amassed percentages not acheived by other goalies in NHL history. I'd have to give my pick to Dryden.
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sgvette
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnny labs wrote:
all good points but Ill still take Pat Roy over ken Dryden,just like I would take the 2010 Blackhawks over the 1961 Blackhawks. I dont love the guy like you love Dryden.Just using my brain. Las Vegas makes a ton of money on people who love their favorite teams/players (Cubs the last 100 years).


Not sure where the "brain" part comes in. Roy played at a very high level for a long time, but you could argue he gave up as many terrible goals, yes at playoff time, as he did make big saves in the last few years of his long, long career.

I certainly don't "love" Dryden, being a long-time Bruins fan who still remembers him stealing a Cup from the B's in 1971. And a Canadiens' player is pretty much the last guy that I would overrate based on "favorites." As a matter of fact, I'm pretty much the opposite. I take quite a lot of flak from other B's fans when I say Tim Thomas is the most overrated player in the NHL.

However, Im old enough to remember Dryden's entire NHL career as well as Roy's NHL career and while admitting the difficulty in comparing players across generations, I'll take Dyden over Roy 100 out of 100 times.
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johnny labs
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well adleast we agree on Tim Thomas. Smile
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happyfanz
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Roy left in 1995, the Habs missed the playoffs 3 out of the next 5 years. They even recorded their worst performance (2000-2001) in over 50 years!

Now, when Dryden retired, the Habs won 3 other division championships with over 100 points, a bunch of average goalies captured the Vezina trophy (Herron, Larocque, Sévigny in 1981) and the Jennings (Herron Wamsley in 1982) and the Habs did not miss the playoffs during this 5 years comparative window.

Without showing any lack of respect to Dryden (I never saw him played, but I was told he was a great goalie and his stats are there to back him up), you could have put Mickey Mouse in front of the net during the late-70s early-80s and it would have performed very well! We will never know if Dryden would have had a significant impact on an average team just like Roy did when the team won the cup in 1993 and especially in 1986.

So as I said previously in this post, there's no doubt in my mind that Roy had a larger positive impact on his team (You can't win 2 MVP playoffs if you're not the best on your team!)
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vegasjay
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I'd take Dryden over Roy a 100 out of a 100 times" Rolling On Floor Laughing

Roy- 3 Conn Smythe trophy's, ONLY PLAYER EVER
Roy- 151 playoff wins, MOST EVER
Roy- 247 career playoff starts, MOST EVER
In 2004 Roy was voted by sports writer's and fans as the best goalie EVER

"I'd take Dryden over Roy a 100 out of a 100 times." Yea, whatever Boxing
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgvette wrote:
johnny labs wrote:
all good points but Ill still take Pat Roy over ken Dryden,just like I would take the 2010 Blackhawks over the 1961 Blackhawks. I dont love the guy like you love Dryden.Just using my brain. Las Vegas makes a ton of money on people who love their favorite teams/players (Cubs the last 100 years).


Not sure where the "brain" part comes in. Roy played at a very high level for a long time, but you could argue he gave up as many terrible goals, yes at playoff time, as he did make big saves in the last few years of his long, long career.


"terrible goals in the last few years of his career" You mean like most athletes who lose their skills slowly with age? I guess if Roy woulda thrown in the towel at age 32 he wouldn't of let in all those "terrible goals" What a joke!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dryden was "stellar" vs. the Soviets in the Summit Series. How many times did you curse him after getting blown out in Montreal when he turned into a sieve and gave up 7 goals? How about in Vancouver when he let in another 5? He wins a close one in Moscow 3-2 (game 6) then holds on in game 8 but allows 5 more goals. All total 19 ga and a 4.75 gaa and if my math is right a whopping .840 S%. And BTW, Dryden collected his 2 wins in the series only after Clarke broke Kharlamov's ankle who just happened to be the Soviets best player.

Stop saying Dryden is easy choice over Pat Roy cause you're wrong. If you didn't want anyone to argue against Dryden why even bother posting the thread to begin with? Rasta

http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1972/content.htm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgvette wrote:
johnny labs wrote:
all good points but Ill still take Pat Roy over ken Dryden,just like I would take the 2010 Blackhawks over the 1961 Blackhawks. I dont love the guy like you love Dryden.Just using my brain. Las Vegas makes a ton of money on people who love their favorite teams/players (Cubs the last 100 years).


Not sure where the "brain" part comes in. Roy played at a very high level for a long time, but you could argue he gave up as many terrible goals, yes at playoff time, as he did make big saves in the last few years of his long, long career.

I certainly don't "love" Dryden, being a long-time Bruins fan who still remembers him stealing a Cup from the B's in 1971. And a Canadiens' player is pretty much the last guy that I would overrate based on "favorites." As a matter of fact, I'm pretty much the opposite. I take quite a lot of flak from other B's fans when I say Tim Thomas is the most overrated player in the NHL.

However, Im old enough to remember Dryden's entire NHL career as well as Roy's NHL career and while admitting the difficulty in comparing players across generations, I'll take Dyden over Roy 100 out of 100 times.


Tim Thomas is definately no Evgeni Ryabchikov or Blaine Lacher, that's for sure and he may even win his 2nd Vezina. Cheers
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