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Bodycheck and Men of Steel hockey

 
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torontotablehockey
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Bodycheck and Men of Steel hockey Reply with quote

Does anyone have any information on the number of games produced in total by either company? How many models were there?
Does anyone have any of these games still? Any parts still available?

Great games and want to learn more
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Cowboy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Bodycheck and Men of Steel hockey Reply with quote

torontotablehockey wrote:
Does anyone have any information on the number of games produced in total by either company? How many models were there?
Does anyone have any of these games still? Any parts still available?

Great games and want to learn more


Outside of a few parts, Men Of Steel was designed so you could buy most of the parts yourself. That is, you wouldn't need to go through Charlie who made the game.

Sorry no info on number of either of those games made.

I did see a Men Of Steel on Craigslist or Kijiji... I think it was last week.
I think it was out in your neck of the woods.

Warren
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torontotablehockey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi warren
I was just playing a certin Bobby Orr munro game the other day! remember the east vs west series? lol

I was wondering if anyone on the forum here owns either of the games? I do not know of anyone that has a bodycheck and have only ever seen one men of steel game. I am very impressed with the MOS game, as the variation in plays and the creativity allowed is first rate. As Warren learned a few years ago, I can handle a roller puck pretty good too...

Would like to find out more info on both of these games. if anyone can share any knowledge that would be great
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Cowboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

torontotablehockey wrote:
hi warren
I was just playing a certin Bobby Orr munro game the other day! remember the east vs west series? lol

I was wondering if anyone on the forum here owns either of the games? I do not know of anyone that has a bodycheck and have only ever seen one men of steel game. I am very impressed with the MOS game, as the variation in plays and the creativity allowed is first rate. As Warren learned a few years ago, I can handle a roller puck pretty good too...

Would like to find out more info on both of these games. if anyone can share any knowledge that would be great


What info do you want to know? I have played a number of times on both games.

As for that East/West Series... I want a re-match Smile
But preferably on a different type of game so I have a better chance Very Happy
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torontotablehockey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey warren
well, I have played the Men of Steel game. I found it a truly fantastic game and seemingly I could create an endless supply of plays. While the right wing provided the most opportinities, the left side was not too limited. The defense could make lots of problems for you, as the centreman can backcheck and the opportunities to fight for pucks exist.
I have only seen photos of the Bodycheck game, so I wanted to see how they compare. Does anyone out there own one? Warren, how do you compare the two games? If I like the Men of Steel, do you think the Bodycheck is another that would be up my alley?
Is there anyone who may have one for sale out there?
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tonscia
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go on YouTube, there are 16 videos on "Bodycheck Table Hockey".
7 are mine, with the city "Yonkers" in the title.
The others are Dan's and Greg G's.
You should be able to get a feel for how the game plays, in my opinion, with much more power than any other game.

If you search on "Bodycheck" within THH, you will get many posts with discussion about the game.

I believe there are only three games in the USA, mine and Greg G has two.
Anyone coming to the NYC area is welcome to contact me and try the game at a mutually convenient time.

Yes the game is high end, Dan designed it for the bar scene.
Some people feel it is ugly, but do I care?
I don't think it is ugly, beauty is in the mind of the beholder.
There is no doubt about the performance.
Some people don't like the fact that the goalie does not have "wings".
Remember who the the market is.
You want people to score, not have 0-0 ties.
We could put wings on the goalie for a tournament model, not a big deal.

The issue is marketing.
We were hoping that the game would take off in Canada. It didn't.
I can convince you how lousy a salesman I am! (here in the NYC area).
I've gone to several dozen bars and billiard supply places but they weren't interested.
It seemed to be the poor ecomony and the fact that they couldn't see that the game could make them money, not only directly but through increased food and beverage sales. There were also issues with franchised bar games.
I have maybe a dozen people interested in buying this $4000. game, but economies of scale require a production run of 50 games.
I got in on the game in 2008 when the Canadian dollar was $.80 US.
We have some new marketing ideas that we will try, (if I have the energy and dedication!)
Remember, we all know that TH is not the only thing we do in life.

The problems I have had with the game were correctable in a few minutes with no need for new parts.
And the problems are very rare.

I could write more, but I'll leave it at this for now.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Respectfully,
Tony Sciacca

OH! there is NO WAY I would part with my Bodycheck!!!
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torontotablehockey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tony... I went over the videos on youtube pretty carefully.

I think that the bodycheck game offers a lot. When I compare it to the Men of Steel game, I think that the Bodycheck has the better design with the men and the surface. It allows the finesse player to enjoy some very advanced playability while allowing the recreational player a sturdy and fun game that would be a sure hit at any sports bar! I am surprised that the reception in selling the sports bar market has not been better. I would approach the NHL and AHL arenas, and sell in a top-down approach. Most hockey facilities now have bubble hockey games, still mainly Chexx, and there seems to be success available in these areas (especially when older games become outdated or requiring repair).

This game won't be an easy sell to the average player, of course, mainly due to pricing. If a cheaper model (withoit the base, full dome,etc) were available to joe common, it might be a feasible proposition.

I have played a Men of Steel, and was very impressed with its performance. For sake of discussion if anyone were interested in my observations, I think the Men of Steel has the bodycheck beat in a few areas, which are price (when they were sold, that is), displayability, and slot pattern.
The right defenseman on the Men of Steel offers a few unique opportunities as you can make a pass or shot either in front of, or even BEHIND the opposition defender. The play area is well covered so that neat checking opportunities exist without too much hacking.
The Bodycheck has a few definite positives over Men of Steel, though. The men are nicer and also lighter, which gives the player more control overall. The rods are grips are better suited to the true table hockey feel for spin shots and stickhandling (which are possible on Men of Steel but far more diffiicult due to the diamater of the rods and grips). The surface looks amazing on Bodycheck, and while not a bad surface on Men of Steel, it gets marked up in a hurry and will then take away from the appearance over time.
I like the removable end boards on the Men of Steel game, as it is easier to transport, lighter, and obviously less expensive (yet still attractive).

The puck lifting up at center ice on the Bodycheck is first rate! Very cool feature indeed... that alone is a selling feature to the high end market.

Not sure what problems occur on either game, but any repair time on a game is costly in the coin-op market so you need to make sure that no flaws exist which may end up causing the game to have any 'down-time' where it takes up space but makes no revenue for a bar owner. Even if repairs are considered easy to perform, none should be necessary. In seeing a Men of Steel in action for several days of intense play, i saw no problems that required attention. What I did notice is that the paint jobs on the figures do chip easily and that the surface gets scratched as well.

I loved playing the game. Can't find any photos online or youtube videos to share but can safely say that I have not played a game with so many unique plays. The wooden goalie rod gave a good feel and the goalie's range of motion was also quite enjoyable. I could quickly apply my skill set from powerplay, stiga, coleco, and benej in making a huge variation of neat plays happen.
I can't wait to play a Bodycheck game now. Good luck in the marketing of the game, Tony. I think there are opportunities in the market for such a product. You just need to think big and it can happen. Start with NHL arenas - go for it!
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Cowboy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

torontotablehockey wrote:


I loved playing the game. Can't find any photos online or youtube videos to share !


I assume you are talking about the MOSH game?

There are two videos right on this site.
http://www.tablehockeyheaven.com/videos/2004/index.html
http://www.tablehockeyheaven.com/videos/2003/index.html

Also there are photos of three different versions.
http://www.tablehockeyheaven.com/photos/games/men_of_steel_hockey/index.html

When I have more time I may comment on the two games.

Cheers, Warren
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tonscia
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto,

Thank you so much for your constructive comments on Bodycheck.
All of your comments regarding the market are dead on!

Warren,

Thank you for giving us a quick reference to the MOS videos.


I have a few comments, having just watched the MOS videos. (I have not had the opportunity to play the MOS.)

If the roller puck is the same one offered by tablehockeyshop.com which it sure looks like, then the Bodycheck puck is slightly lighter, smaller and rolls faster and smoother, as I have tested both. See my posts on "Table Hockey Pucks". Thus, the Bodycheck puck is a little better when making plays while the puck is moving, adding to the play choices.

I respectfully disagree with Toronto about the MOS slot pattern. I'm not sure I like the longer centerman's slots of the MOS and that the centerman can get so close to the goalie. I'm concerned that the centerman in the defensive zone overly restricts the offensive play of the other center. With a playing surface about 5 inches longer than Bodycheck, my other concern is that the MOS center and wing's slot travel is very close to the natural range of a person's arm motion. If that is the case, then the MOS might play a bit slower.

It seems the MOS RD has undefended passes to his center and RW, correct me if I am wrong.

I'm pretty certain the Bodycheck has smoother passing behind the net.

You can "hack" on the Bodycheck, we consider it "part of the game", or might call it "goon tactics".
You just have to hold your player that much stronger.

In fairness, the MOS is an earlier design.
The MOS seems to have good checking in the corners.

Yes, the Bodycheck is much more expensive.
The electronics, the faceoff & return mechanism, the base, internal structure and dome are a major part of the cost.
Yes, a less expensive Bodycheck would be nice!

I look forward to Warren's comments, no rush.

Take care fellas!!!
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Steveor
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bodycheck Hockey looks magnificent.

Tonscia, Any chance they might market a tabletop version? I know a lot of craftsmanship and engineering went into designing it but $3K+ is a huge amount of dough for a game. Take away the auto puck return and the electronics and you still have an awesome hockey experience.
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Habib Bonzini
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Body Check Reply with quote

Bonzini Here!
I own 2 Body check games. One is the same vintage as Tony S's, and the other is a prototpe which is identical except for the electronic package. The prototype is restricted to a five minute game with a 2 minute overtime. The newer vintage games have programable game times, overtimes etc. The games have over 4500 games recorded with no mechanical breakdowns.

They have had exactly: 0 lost pucks, 0 unfair face offs, 0 rules violation arguments. Like most other games, there are the annoying in and outs, but it is very minimal. The game is precise and free flowing. It is geared for excitment and offense. Every shot is defendable, and every pass can be contested. There is no behind the net issues, and with integrated scoreboard, sound effects, and perfect faceoff mechanism, there is no down time and no crybabying. The rods are 1/4 inch fiberglass with teflon soft grips. That results in precise fingertip control and power. It has become the only game I care to play.

I marketed the game to arcade game distributors and operators in the mid atlantic and north east. Each of them had issues with the rods either being to small to withstand the rigors of bar room antics, or being to whippy so as to cause a potential liability issue from injury. Personally I can tell you the rods are not a breaking issue. They can be bent 180 degress with no structural issue. The whipping concern is somewhat more grounded to my thinking. I can see the problem with young kids pulling at the rods and then letting them spring back.....at eye level. This might make the game less attractive to the arcade crowd, but the spring nature of the rods should not be a major concern in bars.

The real issue on the part of all of these distributors was the relationship of the earnings capability vs the purchase price, and the fact that the Chexx games that are still available for sale had no interest by operators because they didn't generate any revenue. There was no demand, and thus they turned us away time after time.

It is still the best game I've ever played on, and except for several classic Benej games that I just can't part with, the only games I own.

If you are ever on the Jersey Shore, let me know and we can play some Body Check!

Bonzini
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tonscia
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you have it!
Only three Bodychecks in the USA!
In the NYC area!
I will respond to Stevors' questions and have more info as soon as I can.
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